Carly McKay Wilson

Between Two Firms is an interview series accompanying Economics@Work.  We ask alumni speakers the candid questions students can’t ask in person.  This week’s guest is Carly McKay Wilson, a research director at Ipsos North America and a 2010 Econ alumna.  Carly reflects on graduating after the financial crisis, debunks common recruiting myths, and emphasizes the importance of exploration.
Have a question you want us to ask the next speaker?  Post it on Piazza before or after Economics@Work.

CY:  I want to start off by asking, as someone who took a variety of courses outside of your major track, what are some courses that you would recommend to any Econ major?
CW:  Any class I took in the American Culture department was fascinating.  Honestly, any sort of “soft science” that studies people—my preferred were anthropology, American culture, and psychology.  Anything where you’re studying culture and you’re studying why the world is the way it is, and why people think the way they do, can make a really nice balance between the theoretical world of an Econ degree.

CY:  There’s a bit of stigma against those “soft skills” and sciences that you mentioned earlier, where they’re viewed as less crucial than technical skills.  What would you say about that?
CW:  That that is malarkey.  [Laughs]  I would not be successful in my job without my soft skills.  My clients do not care that I can do econometrics.  What they care about is that I can communicate effectively, that I can present data in a way that humanizes it, and that I can analyze things quickly and on the fly.  Even for my colleagues in finance, working in business nowadays is about how you relate to people and how you convey your point.  If you look at all the successful people in the world, they all have that skill.  I think having the balance of hard and soft skills is really important.

CY:  You also mentioned that you never did research during your time as an undergrad.  How did you get to explore and understand that your current job was the right fit for you?
CW:  Well, I didn’t!  [Laughs]  I just took it.  And I want to push back against the trend that you need to know what you want to do before you do it.  I took a job in retail after graduation, but if I’d had my pick and if there had not been a recent recession, it probably wouldn’t even have ended up on my radar.  And I feel this emphasis from younger people that think “I have to get it right the first time”.  You’re actually going to learn a lot more if you get it wrong first.  Failure is not a bad thing.  I wish that new hires would be a little more confident in themselves and be okay with that ambiguity.  Heaven forbid, you might not even be good at it, but that is okay.

CY:  Back in the past, Econ majors typically went into finance or consulting.  Could you comment now on the level of flexibility and options for people?
CW:  I think that you are the only person who limits your own options.  If you listen to people who say you have to go into finance or consulting, that’s on you for limiting yourself in that way, because you don’t.  I mean, I was talking beforehand about a previous Econ alumnus who was an athletic director at Colorado State University.  In my opinion, this major is one of the most flexible degrees offered.  You are studying business and the economy.  Who doesn’t want to sell stuff and make money?  Everyone does, and you can apply your skills to help them do that.

CY:  I think that’s why your talk today really resonated, because it gave some students the permission to consider going down a different direction.
CW:  Yeah!  I think market research is a field not a lot of people think of, but when you think more broadly about what Econ is, you understand the key structure on which the world runs.  So you’re only limited by your own imagination in terms of how you apply that.

CY:  Let’s talk about your job specifically.  How does your qualitative department collaborate with the quantitative department, and are there times when you may contradict each other?
CW:  Both happen all the time.  Qual helps clients figure out where to dig, and quant provides the “data rigor”, the sample sizes necessary to make reasonable conclusions, so having the two together can be very powerful. 

CY:  How do you see market research and how it’s conducted changing in the coming years?
CW:  Even in the seven years I’ve been doing this, more of my research has moved online because it’s cheaper.  I’m also finding that, honestly, clients care less about data rigor.  They need something fast and cheap.  You also see companies like Google and Facebook competing in market research, as they can mine these huge datasets without actively asking people.  I think market research is moving towards not needing voluntary participation, but we’re not there yet.  As Econ has already proven, just looking at people in theory and assuming they’re perfectly rational isn’t enough.  You have to have the other nuances added into it.

CY:  I know that after the recession, you took a job in retail that wasn’t in your long-term trajectory.  Quite a few students will similarly take a first job or internship that they later discover is not the right fit for them.  How would you suggest that one can leverage these short-term experiences to enter a new field that’s seemingly unrelated?
CW:  I didn’t have internships in college, either.  I had a full-time summer job.  But I was able to market myself.  It’s all about thinking past the literal.  So yes, you’ve taken Calculus and you’ve taken Econ four-whatever, but what skills have those classes given you?  Always, always, think:  what is the employer trying to achieve with this job position?  What is the benefit they’re trying to get out of that employee, and how can you uniquely deliver that benefit?

CY:  Are there myths about college, the job search, or Econ majors that you’d like to debunk?
CW:  Yeah—that Econ majors don’t have social skills; that Econ majors only like math; that Econ majors are really theoretical, and like…have no soul.  [Chuckles]  A lot of Econ majors I’ve met, including myself, don’t fit that bill.  And the myth that you’re supposed to have it figured out and find that perfect life-long career by the time you’re done with college …nope, that’s probably not going to happen.  So don’t freak out.  If you don’t get that internship that you thought you wanted at that investment bank, it’s fine!  Know that there are a lot of ways to get to the end.  It’s okay if you took an internship you’re not crazy about, and it’s okay to take a class that’s hard for you. 

CY:  As always, I ask:  what’s one thing people should see or do before they graduate and leave this campus?
CW:  Do something that feels totally antithetical to what you’re studying and what you’re passionate about.  This place is such a wealth of knowledge and exposure, and if you don’t stop and take advantage of that, if you don’t go to some random play, the Collage Concert, or the Kelsey Museum…you’re really missing out on an opportunity to explore something incredibly valuable to society as a whole.  It is worth the effort.  It makes you a more well-rounded human, and that, in my opinion, is what university is about.