(This episode consists of several instances of me asking a question followed by clips of different
responses from different interviews I conducted. As the interviewees are being kept anonymous,
their responses here are marked with a number representing each person. My lines are marked
with my initials. During the intro, there\u2019s a layered sound collage of several different voices.
These voices aren\u2019t from the people I interviewed, and the specifics of what they say aren\u2019t
relevant to the episode, but rather create a feeling or tension, so they aren\u2019t transcribed here.)
PF: Hi. I\u2019m Pierce. I think when most people think of people who they disagree with, it\u2019s mostly
negative thoughts.
PF: Anyway, so, for this episode, I conducted five different interviews with some people that I
know, asking about their thoughts and experiences with people who disagree with them
politically. These are everyday people of various political backgrounds, and here\u2019s what they
had to say.
PF: My first question is, do you have any relationships with people where you two have
opposing political views?
1: Yeah.
2: Yeah, I do.
3: Yes, a bunch of people.
PF: Who?
4: I have friends of friends who have different opinions than me.
3: Friends, family members, people I work with.
5: Almost everybody who I interact with.
2: Friends of friends.
1: My parents are liberals, but a lot of my aunts and uncles are conservative.
PF: What\u2019s it like? How do their politics affect you?
3: It would be fine if they didn\u2019t bring up their opinion as if I agree with them.
1: Yeah, usually my uncle will go off about \u201cOh, they\u2019re trying to ban guns. Isn\u2019t that crazy? They
shouldn\u2019t do that.\u201d Usually we don\u2019t really say anything; we just kind of, you know, let him go.
5: It makes it difficult, because I either have to keep my mouth shut, or I can get in an argument,
and I prefer not to get into a bunch of fights all the time with people that I have to interact with or
friends.
3: The town that I live in is very much one-sided, so everyone just assumes that they can say
whatever they want, even if it\u2019s in a negative light, and it\u2019s bothersome because I don\u2019t share
that same opinion.
2: Actually, overall, I think it has a positive impact on me, because most of the time I get to hear
their arguments, and they\u2019re pretty well-spoken, and so I get to hear, you know, I feel like I\u2019ve
gained a lot of insight into other peoples\u2019 opinions and my own opinions.
4: Like, I have more conversations about politics, I suppose, rather than if I didn\u2019t know them.
PF: Do you think you\u2019d have a better overall experience if they shared your political views?
4: If on certain policies they changed their mind, yeah, I would probably like them more.
2: But I wouldn\u2019t have the same kind of insights that I\u2019ve had. I mean, I wouldn\u2019t have the same
kind of conversations and the same kind of learning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
1: I won\u2019t say that I don\u2019t take a little bit of enjoyment in listening to other peoples\u2019 opinions and
being like, \u201cWell, I don\u2019t agree with that.\u201d Usually it makes me uncomfortable, though.
5: If I know that they roughly feel the same way I do, then we won\u2019t even broach the subject,
and if it comes up, I don\u2019t have to feel nervous that this is gonna become some kind of a big
argument.
3: The people that have the same opinion, at least we can agree, and we can vent to each
other, but there\u2019s still so much negativity going on that, even though we agree, the other side
seems so strong, and I don\u2019t agree with what they\u2019re doing.
1: I think it\u2019s important to have relationships with people who disagree with you, though. If you
don\u2019t understand the other side, then you can never come to an agreement.
PF: What do you think is the solution for issues this causes?
1: I think the problem is that people just tend to hate each other based on their political
orientation, and we\u2019ve kind of moved past the need to discuss our ideas and try to change each
other\u2019s minds; we just kind of yell at each other all the time, and nobody is ever convinced of
anything.
3: I would love the solution to be for everyone to kind of be open to looking at the other points of
view, listening to each other, and trying to work together for a common goal, but I don\u2019t think
people are willing to do that. As soon as they know you are Democrat or Republican, they\u2019re not
even gonna work with you, and they\u2019re gonna do their own thing, where you should be working
together to come up with a common good for the people.
1: Our political alignment is synonymous with our identity, so you can\u2019t just change your mind,
because then it looks like you\u2019re betraying the other people who are on \u201cyour side,\u201d so I think it
would be easier if people didn\u2019t tie themselves to either red or blue and just kind of, like, if you
agree with one or two beliefs of one party, you kind of get sucked into believing all the other
beliefs, even if you don\u2019t subscribe to them morally, so it just makes everybody more divided, so
I feel like if we had more options to choose from and if we weren\u2019t so scared of talking to each
other and changing our minds, that might help that.
4: That\u2019s pretty much it: just civil conversations, and then either your viewpoint or their viewpoint
will change, or you\u2019ll just have a better understanding and, like, still treat each other as humans.
PF: Do you believe anyone you know is a morally bad person because of their political views?
4: I suppose, yes, I think they\u2019re morally wrong in the way they believe some things. I guess I try
to tell myself, hey, they may have different moral opinions or moral viewpoints, but I don\u2019t think
anyone\u2019s, like, perfect, so I shouldn\u2019t just judge them because from what I see they\u2019re not doing
things right. I should still treat them like a human being.
3: I don\u2019t think they\u2019re morally bad. I think they\u2019re being blinded with maybe one belief and then
they\u2019re just ignoring maybe some of the bad things that are going on because they don\u2019t want to
admit or look at maybe what the other side could be doing that\u2019s good.
2: Morally bad people are people who know that what they\u2019re doing is bad, who know something
and then just choose to ignore it, and I don\u2019t think that\u2019s what\u2019s happening. It\u2019s just that they\u2019ve
been misinformed. The people who misinformed them are probably morally wrong, most likely,
because a lot of disinformation is out there, a lot of people intentionally misleading people and
spreading doubt of science and of \u201cthe mainstream media.\u201d
5: When I have conversations or hear of someone who claims to or is, you know, very religious,
and then they say things that are, like, literally hateful and want things to happen that actually<\/p>\n\n\n\n
hurt other people, yeah, I think that\u2019s a moral failing when you can\u2019t see that being bigoted is
hateful, and you\u2019re supposed to be against hate. I mean, there\u2019s contradictions all the time, and
picking and choosing those things is wrong.
PF: Do you get angry when people you know don\u2019t care about or even are opposed to political
issues you\u2019re passionate about?
5: Yes, um, it\u2019s anger out of frustration because these people are not hearing or seeing things
as they really are, and I get frustrated when I see intelligent people believe in stuff that\u2019s just
made or up twisted.
2: Sometimes I just get frustrated knowing that, even just in general, that people don\u2019t care
about the environment, or people will believe conspiracy theories over science, that people don\u2019t
believe in science. That really bothers me. I feel like I\u2019ve been getting angry about it now more
than I used to.
1: You know, it\u2019s easy when you\u2019re getting in an argument to just get super angry, even when
it\u2019s something that you might not even have cared about that much before.
3: Well, I don\u2019t get angry about it, because they can have their opinion just as I can have mine.
Sometimes it\u2019s difficult for me to understand why they may not see a certain issue in the way I
do.
4: It\u2019s really not much of, like, considering the options of the other side anymore. It\u2019s really
people trying to say, \u201cI\u2019m absolutely right about this, and you\u2019re absolutely wrong.\u201d Like, just that
arrogance that some people have, it just gets on my nerves.
PF: Do you ever hide your political beliefs from people that you know disagree with you?
3: Yes, quite often.
1: Like I said with my uncles before, I didn\u2019t openly disagree with them.
3: Because they attack, and I don\u2019t always have all the answers or the facts right on hand.
4: Sometimes I wish I would speak out more, but it\u2019s just, I\u2019m always afraid I\u2019m gonna be labeled
as just a horrible person, so I kinda just keep quiet.
5: It\u2019s far easier just to kind of keep your mouth shut and try and retain friendships, because
oftentimes these people are your close friends and this is the only thing you disagree with, so
just take it off the table.
PF: Do you think the amount of hostility among people with opposing views has changed
because of recent events such as COVID or the Presidential election?
3: Definitely COVID and the election have made it worse.
5: When you\u2019ve got ten months to hear nothing but a repeat of whatever you\u2019re being told,
you\u2019re going to get more and more set in your ways.
3: People are very divided. Rather than looking at what would be the way to help and protect
people, it\u2019s become political with kind of who you follow and what they say, and that\u2019s what then
people are believing, whether scientists and doctors are giving facts about COVID or not. Same
with the election. People aren\u2019t wanting to accept the outcome, and so they\u2019re getting angry
about it.
PF: Do you ever try to convince others to agree with your political beliefs?
2: Yes, especially when it comes to climate change and the environment.
5: In my own household, yes. Outside of that, I, like I said, might very subtly try and add some
facts into a conversation if somebody mentions something to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
1: I sometimes play devil\u2019s advocate and just be like, \u201cWell, you know, what if this is true, you
know?\u201d but for the most part, not really. I just try to avoid all conflict.
4: I don\u2019t know how successful I\u2019ve been, but when I feel like a point hasn\u2019t been talked about, I
need to get that point across, but I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve ever really gone out to try and convince
people of my side of the issues.
3: I\u2019m tending to feel like I want to question people with \u201cwhy would you think this is right?\u201d or
\u201cwhy would you think this is good for people?\u201d but I haven\u2019t come across that to do that and kind
of just get an honest answer, because if they\u2019re thinking they\u2019re being this good person, then
why wouldn\u2019t they want to protect people type thing.
PF: Are there any topics you specifically won\u2019t talk about with people who disagree with you?
3: No, but like I said, I try to stay away from it, because the people who don\u2019t agree with me
seem very just hostile and adamant that they are right.
PF: Are you satisfied with how much you do to try to convince others?
1: Yeah, because like I said earlier, people just see themselves as part of one group or the
other, so it\u2019s really hard to actually convince people of things, because they don\u2019t wanna admit
that they\u2019re wrong, so I feel like trying to actively argue with others about it won\u2019t really get
anywhere.
3: Like I said, I can maybe state a fact and say, \u201cWell, here\u2019s why I disagree with that,\u201d but I\u2019m
not going to change their mind. I can make my fact calmly and peacefully, but a lot of times I
feel attacked. Even if I ask a straight-out question, then they\u2019ll bring up things that are a \u201cmaybe\u201d
or \u201cwhat if\u201d or \u201ccould be\u201d or something that happened ten years ago, and they won\u2019t answer the
question, so no, I\u2019d rather just ignore everybody and not talk about it.
5: When people are to the point where they\u2019re actually using violence or, you know, the things
that are happening, or beating other people up, for having a difference in opinion, which
happens now much more than it used to, then it\u2019s almost like a dangerous scenario. At this
point, I can be politically involved by writing my congressperson, which I do, by trying to get my
candidate elected, doing call phone banking and knocking on doors in some neighborhoods I
wouldn\u2019t normally ever go to, and you know, just trying to get people to also be involved that are
on my side more or less, and just to make sure that the people I know who do agree with me
are also kind of being aware of what\u2019s going on and looking for ways to correct it themselves.
PF: So you think the solution is for people to keep to themselves but still try to be politically
active in productive ways?
5: Yeah, more or less. I just don\u2019t think anybody should be really super loud about their politics.
To a certain extent, it\u2019s rude, on either side. If you were to become politically active in whatever
ways that you can in your area or even go to another area or whatever level you can do, um,
yeah, I think America should do that more and more. You know, if we\u2019re not active and we\u2019re not
supporting our candidates and our beliefs and fighting for what we believe in, we\u2019ll be
steamrolled. You have to speak up in those things, but I don\u2019t think you should be going around,
starting the conversation with people who you know believe differently, or just talking politics all
the time, anyways. It\u2019s probably a good idea now to kind of diffuse that situation and avoid it a
little bit, but at the same time, when you see an injustice or something that needs to be spoken
up about, you should go to the right people and try to work toward change and improvement.
4: You know, if I believe what I believe is right, I should try to get people to move towards it, so I
suppose maybe I should talk more about what I believe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
2: Because if everyone just shuts up about their beliefs all the time, then how is anyone gonna
get anything done, and how are we gonna be empathetic to each other, and how are we gonna
be able to come to any kind of agreement if we all just ignore each others\u2019 opinions or ignore
our own opinions?
PF: So you think people need to listen to each other more?
2: I mean, I feel like that\u2019s something I could say no matter what\u2019s going on in the world. People
always need to listen to each other more.
3: Again, I think the solution is to be open-minded and listen to what somebody else might have
to say, because maybe they have a good idea. Try and work together, and you might not do it
their way or your way, but try and come somewhere in the middle and fix some of these
problems.
1: Yeah, just keep an open mind. I would say try to understand each other\u2019s experiences more.
On social media, we tend to, like, especially Twitter\u2019s really bad for this, but we just tend to take
broad, nuanced topics and just condense them down into, like, easily-repeatable sound bites,
which is not good, because people will just follow those things, and like, your opinion will
change based on whatever new hot take there is on the internet, whereas I like thinking deeply
about things and why things might be broken, and we should talk about that more instead of just
being like \u201cOh, this person is bad.\u201d Like, it\u2019s not politically helpful for people to just be like, \u201cNo, I
will hate everyone until we find one good non-problematic person whose policies I agree with all
of them,\u201d because we can\u2019t really move forward if we do that.
PF: You said that as I was, like, on Twitter. You said, \u201cOh, Twitter\u2019s especially bad,\u201d so I just
looked at Twitter and was like, \u201cOh.\u201d
1: Okay, are we done now?
PF: Yeah, you can leave.
1: Cool.
PF: This has been Michigan Voices. Thank you for listening. Maybe you agree with what was
said. Maybe you can relate to some of it. If not, hopefully you gained some insight. That\u2019s all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Stay safe.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
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